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'This Week' Transcript 5-21-23: Rep. Jodey Arrington and Sen. Chris Van Hollen

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<p><br /> Rep. Jodey Arrington and Sen. Chris Van Hollen were on "This Week" Sunday, May 21. This is a rush transcript and may be updated.</p>

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, May 21, 2023 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC “THIS WEEK” ANCHOR: And joining us now, is Congressman Jodey Arrington of Texas, chair of the budget committee, good morning congressman. You heard what the president said, that the proposal you have put forward is unacceptable. Citing tax breaks for big oil, cuts in Healthcare, your reaction?

REP. JODEY ARRINGTON, (R) TEXAS & CHAIR, BUDGET COMMITTEE: Well my reaction is, the president had almost 100 days without engaging with the process now. He’s – his back is against the wall, we have one proposal that has passed the House. Nobody else has put a proposal on the table. So, he needs to respond to that proposal and now he’s, I believe, just making more excuses not to negotiate a responsible debt ceiling deal that will raise the debt ceiling, pay our bills, protect the good faith and credit of the United States, but also deal with the spending problem that’s driving the iNFLation crisis and some of the economic woes that we’re experiencing, along with just this massive and unsustainable debt that we’re caring as a county. So, I hope he changes his tune and I hope in his conversation with Speaker McCarthy that it’s more productive and more focused, again, on the one proposal that has passed -- Republicans put forward and passed out of the House.

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC "THIS WEEK" ANCHOR: Well, the president said he’s willing to cut spending by more than a trillion dollars. He said that this morning. But he also wants Republicans to consider raising revenue. That has been a non-starter for Republicans. But will you reconsider?

ARRINGTON: No, because you couldn’t get tax policies and tax revenues in the Senate bill. We certainly weren’t going to put it in the House bill. So, number one, it’s not on the table for discussion. Number two, taxes right now would only be passed onto consumers in higher prices. So, we would exacerbate iNFLation.

And our – our economy is growing now at just 1.1 percent GDP. That’s down over the last three quarters. We’re heading into recession. The last thing we want to do is add another tax. The president and Democrats passed out of the IRA, the Inflation Reduction Act, taxes on businesses, taxes on energy, taxes on investment. This is not the time to put a tax on our economy or on working families. The president, again, needs to deal with the proposal that passed the House.

And our country is spending at war-time levels, Martha. Almost 25 percent relative to GDP. We haven’t spent that much since we invaded Normandy. I think the American people understand that the cost of living crisis that they’re suffering with is as a result of spending, not because we have low taxes. The fact is, we have record taxes going into Covid and we had another record tax revenue year in 2021.

RADDATZ: The White House sources familiar with the negotiations are telling our Rachel Scott, the latest proposal would keep non-defense and defense discretionary spending flat from 2023 to 2024 and the Republicans want to increase defense spending. That’s despite 45 billion more than President Biden had proposed last time.

ARRINGTON: Well, let’s give some context to the discretionary budget. Our federal government is 40 percent bigger today than it was going into Covid. Secondly, the – the president was the lead negotiator in 2011 for a 10-year spending cap deal and he was doing that in the context of a debt ceiling negotiation. So, this isn’t unprecedented. Even the president’s own budget, if you look at his 10-year budget resolution proposal that he introduced about a month ago, he has $2.7 trillion in discretionary cuts. If you annualize that, that’s over $200 billion a year. We’re talking about going back to $130 billion. That’s what we were spending as a nation, discretionary, just six months ago.

So, this is more than reasonable, but we have to get back to pre-Covid, pre-inflationary spending. We’ve got to right size and reign in this bureaucratic bloat that we’ve pulled out of Covid and that – and we’ve got to deal with that legacy and efficiency.

RADDATZ: Congressman, the president said he can’t guarantee that Republicans won’t force a default. Could Republicans let that happen?

ARRINGTON: Martha, I would suggest that – that Republicans won’t let it happen because we passed a debt ceiling proposal that raises the debt ceiling. And it does it responsibly. And we are the only chamber. We are only – the only part of this tri-part negotiation that’s actually done its job. The president has to respond. He – he has not submitted a single proposal. And the fact is, he hasn’t engaged the process in – in over three months.

And Chuck Schumer, in the Senate, hasn’t put a single dollar amount, not even an alternative proposal with alternative spending reductions and he knows he can’t pass a clean debt ceiling.

RADDATZ: So – so, Congressman – Congressman, obviously, they would disagree with you on that.

So, how confident are you that the – America will not default?

ARRINGTON: Well, we listen to Janet Yellen and her warning that we needed to move with urgency and purpose. And we did. In the – in the House, Republicans did it. The question is, will President Biden listen to Janet Yellen, his own secretary, and with the window closing on the x date, the default date, and respond. We’ve done our job. The president and the Senate hasn’t put a single jot (ph) or tittle (ph) on paper, not a counteroffer, not their own proposal. So, I – if there’s – if we get close to the debt – to the default date, and if there’s any impact on the markets, it’s because this president and Chuck Schumer has been more interested in – in posturing on the debt ceiling than rolling up their sleeves and working with Republicans to negotiate a final deal.

RADDATZ: OK, thanks very much for joining us this morning.

ARRINGTON: Thank you, Martha.

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC "THIS WEEK" ANCHOR: We’re joined now by Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland.

Welcome. Quite a morning. Quite a press conference. You heard Congressman Arrington. What’s your reaction to what he said and what the president said?

SEN CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, (D) BUDGET COMMITTEE & (D) FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE & (D) MARYLAND: Well, it’s good to be with you, Martha.

We’re in an insane situation right now. I heard what Congressman Arrington said. What we have right now is Speaker McCarthy and MAGA House Republicans saying that they’re going to push the default detonator and blow up our economy if they don’t get their way on their budget proposals. That would destroy the American economy.

What President Biden has said is, we’ll talk about reasonable – reasonable budget proposals. He’s put a trillion dollars of cuts on the table already.

It’s not true that the president hasn’t put forward his own proposal. He put forward a budget, a very detailed budget, with $3 trillion in deficit reduction by closing tax breaks for very, very rich people and big corporations and Republicans won’t accept one penny in deficit reduction from closing tax loopholes.

The farce of this whole thing is that, under Donald Trump we raised the debt ceiling three times. Forty percent of our national debt actually was accumulated during the four years of the trump administration. And now – and now they’re not willing to talk about any revenue from very wealthy people as part of this effort.

RADDATZ: And – and – of course the president did talk about that this morning. It’s the most public I've heard him talk about tax revenue. Does that have to go hand-in-hand with spending cuts, or is he saying that’s just something you should consider? Are those tied together? Because that’s clearly a non-starter for Republicans.

VAN HOLLEN: Sure. Well, and that’s the important point. So, Republicans are saying if they don’t get things their way they’re going to blow up the economy. That’s a very different position than what President Biden is saying. President Biden is saying, look, let’s sit down and find a reasonable way to reduce the deficit and debt. He put a trillion dollars of cuts on the table. But he’s not saying, if you don’t do it my way, if you don’t close these tax breaks for very reach people, I'm going to blow up the economy. And that’s the difference here.

So, I – you know, I'm – I'm extremely worried about where we are now. I think the markets are going to get shaky. I think we need to move to plan b, which is what’s called the discharge Petition in the House, which is where you have Republicans, we only need five, work together with all 213 Democrats, to put together the kind of proposal that even about 30 Republicans were talking about as recently as – as May, which have a number of elements, including cuts, but a number of other ingredients.

It seems to me we’re going to have to move in that direction pretty soon.

RADDATZ: Plan b, plan c, the 14th Amendment that – that the president talked about, is that something you would consider still?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, let me – let me just say, plan a needs to be our focus for the next 48 hours. Plan b, which is a reasonable proposal – if – if Speaker McCarthy would just like the House work its will, we can have a discharge petition, we could get a majority in the House for a reasonable proposal to prevent default. Plan c would be the 14th Amendment. Look, my – my view is, the president should use all legal options out there. I think that is a legal option. But it’s not the preferred option because there’s a lot of uncertainty around that approach. It will be litigated.

RADDATZ: The president said that this morning. And – and as – as Congressman Arrington brought up, Janet Yellen actually said – told George Stephanopoulos that it could cause a constitutional crisis, so why even consider that?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, the difference is, it – a – that option would be better than a default. The United States has never defaulted in its History. It would create a – a catastrophe in the economy. So the 14th Amendment is not the preferred alternative. A lot of people predict that even if you go the route of the 14th Amendment you go into a recession, but if – if you default, we’re talking about depression. We’re talking about 18 million people out of work. We’re talking about interest rates going up. We’re talking about everything getting much more expensive for the American people. That is what Speaker McCarthy and the MAGA Republicans and Donald Trump are threatening if they don’t get their way.

RADDATZ: What happened here? They seemed pretty close. You heard Kevin McCarthy talking last week and praising the negotiators. What happened? What was the breakdown?

Once again, we’re in a situation where you’re saying it’s their fault. They say – they’re saying it’s your fault. How did this happen?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, Martha, I've always been skeptical about this. We have a very weak speaker in Kevin McCarthy. We saw how many rounds of votes it took him to be elected speaker. He does not control his caucus. So, he cannot take back a reasonable proposal to his caucus and expect it to get the votes, especially when you have Donald Trump egging them on and saying, don’t give an inch, default, don’t give an inch. So, that’s what we’re facing right now.

I, again, want to emphasize a really important difference. It’s not just both sides saying this or that. The Democrats, President Biden, is not saying that if he doesn’t get his way on how we reduce the deficit over a period of time that he’s going to blow up the economy. That’s the difference. Speaker McCarthy and the MAGA Republicans are threatening to blow up the economy if we don’t do things exactly their way.

RADDATZ: OK, thanks for joining us this morning.

VAN HOLLEN: Good to be with you.

RADDATZ: We all have our fingers crossed for sure.

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